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EarlG

(23,056 posts)
112. Sorry for the late reply
Fri May 30, 2025, 02:29 PM
May 30

And yeah, perhaps we agree in more areas than I thought. I can boil this down a bit for you so you understand more clearly where I'm coming from.

With regard to my fixation on propaganda, this is actually a pretty good example:

When two thirds of Democratic voters are saying one thing, and it's being dismissed as MSM propaganda in these closed partisan spaces, who's in touch with reality? Over the past two years, just saying "Damn, prices at the grocery store are crazy!" was considered some kind of contrarian statement.

I don't think that's quite it. I'm not saying you're spreading propadanda -- grocery prices at the store were, and still, are crazy. That can't be denied, and I'm not suggesting that we try and build a competing propaganda machine to deny it.

But it also cannot be denied that the economy did improve, and dramatically so, from where it was at the end of Trump's term in office, and throughout Biden's presidency.

GDP was up, and exceeded expectations. Productivity improved. Unemployment was historically low, which improved worker power and increased wages. We invested massively in infrastructure projects -- real blue collar jobs. Individual households saw net wealth gains. All of that is objectively true.

But -- then there was inflation. We needed a huge stimulus to recover from Covid. During the pandemic there were massive supply chain disruptions which caused shocks to energy and food prices. As a result, inflation peaked at about 9% in 2022. But by November 2024, inflation was 2.7%. In fact it was roughly 3% -- barely outside of historical norms -- for most of 2024.

So on the one hand, the economy was clearly moving in the right direction from where it had been. The fact that we were going to recover from inflation with a "soft landing" -- no recession, no massive job losses -- was remarkable.

But on the other hand, the prices of groceries and many other items, went up significantly. People felt that pain in their wallets (and I'm one of them).

So that's a set of facts with two competing narratives. The first narrative was that Joe Biden ran in 2020 on recovering from Covid, and he achieved that. Despite the rise in prices, the US economy bounced back far quicker than most other economies around the world, inflation was falling to normal levels, everyone still had a job, and we were heading in the right direction. The second narrative was that high prices were actually caused by Biden's mismanagement of the economy, and that continued high prices demonstrated that he was responsible for these problems rather than fixing them.

That's obviously a huge political problem, and we saw the outcome in November 2024. But it's not like there was only a single narrative. The story could have been that the American economy was the envy of the world, and that while prices were still high, American exceptionalism still ruled, and we had it much better here than most countries did recovering from Covid.

I'm not saying that isn't a tough sell, because it is. But it's an even tougher sell when the aforementioned gigantic billionaire controlled propaganda machine comes into the picture. It skews the playing field to such a degree that tough sells become impossible sells. It makes double standards more glaring -- if Biden had had the gall to ask people to be patient while inflation improves, he would have been destroyed, whereas if Trump says he'll bring down everyone's prices on day one and then two months later says everyone is going to have to "feel a bit of pain" and "make sacrifices," that's completely fine.

But... I'd like to leave all this aside for a moment, because I think the answer to why Trump won and why Democrats don't yet have an answer might actually be a lot simpler. Forget all the deep-dive studies into things like, "How should Democratic politicians talk to Hispanic men under the age of 40?" Instead, consider this:

The planet is fucked, and pretty much everyone is living in a total state of denial. Every day we're faced with new stories about the effects of climate change, or how millions of people are going to be displaced by rising sea levels, or deadly heat waves, or increasingly dangerous weather, or new diseases, etc. etc. Meanwhile, America appears to be declining as a superpower, military conflicts are increasing, and the world seems closer to the brink of nuclear war that it has in the last 40 years.

This is an era of chaos and confusion, and when people live through eras like that, they vote for daddy. They vote for a "strong man." They vote for somebody that's going to pat them on the head and tell them that he will protect them, and look after them, and that everything is going to be okay.

In 2024 that person was Donald Trump. That's the image he projected, and millions of people bought into it. Ironically, his defiant stance during all his court cases probably played into this. As fucked up as it may sound, people saw him as a fighter. And Biden's decline played into this -- by the time of the debate, he came across as too old and weak to be daddy any more. And Kamala Harris couldn't be daddy, because she ran as mommy. And American voters are still sexist as hell. So Trump, by default -- and probably subconsciously for many people -- became the only possible choice.

Assuming that things aren't going to get any better on the global stage over the next four years, my suspicion is that the next Democratic nominee for president will be a daddy figure. If that is the case, perhaps the question that needs to be resolved, then, is is it possible to be a daddy figure WITHOUT the cruelty and the punching down on marginalized populations?

I believe it is, which is why I don't really by into the "we need to be as mean to people as Republicans are if we want people to like us" argument. Hope that makes sense.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

lmaooooo what on earth WhiskeyGrinder May 26 #1
How about, hildegaard28 May 26 #2
+ 100!! CrispyQ May 26 #5
The big brains hildegaard28 May 26 #10
IMHO atreides1 May 28 #103
Ill throw one out: legalize a distinction between wages and income, Volaris May 27 #44
I don't think it's the economy. They have been trained to hate liberals and Democrats, travelingthrulife May 27 #59
Exactly Rebl2 May 28 #99
There's nothing wrong with Dems trying to plan a strategy senseandsensibility May 26 #3
Ahhhhh--More "Bad Things About Democrats". Kingofalldems May 26 #4
Oh those Democrats! Doing what people say they should, learn to speak to the working class. But ... but ... THE HOTEL. betsuni May 26 #29
Bad? Sound like they're researching what went wrong. WarGamer May 26 #36
Lost the WH, House, Senate, Judiciary GreatGazoo May 27 #68
Why is that a bad thing? Mountainguy May 26 #6
I am done with male victimhood Ritabert May 26 #7
I think the male bashing when male concerns are considered Alpeduez21 May 26 #21
I'm laughing....my wife said, "Why don't they just go to school walkingman May 26 #8
Or they could take a page from republican men kacekwl May 27 #54
it's my party........everybody sing along now. nt msongs May 26 #9
... Celerity May 26 #14
Judy;s gonna get what's coming to her.... nt msongs May 26 #16
DNC giving me a good reason to ignore donation appeals. nt delisen May 26 #11
I don't understand why people have a problem with this, republicans got in power because of stuff like this unblock May 26 #12
I think a lack of authenticity might be the problem LearnedHand May 26 #34
I think Democrats focus test too much AZProgressive May 26 #38
cringe level 7 Celerity May 26 #13
Not taking the bait on every single culture war issue the GOP conjures up costs nothing. BannonsLiver May 26 #15
"donors and strategists holing up in luxury hotel rooms" Retrograde May 26 #17
It's the "cost" that bothers me most. lees1975 May 26 #18
The only issue I see here is the "luxury hotel room" thing jmowreader May 26 #19
Why are you framing this so negatively? Prairie Gates May 26 #20
I posted the title and 4 paragraphs verbatim TheProle May 26 #24
How do you make a stupid idea look better? leftstreet May 26 #28
According to YouGov it was 19 million womanofthehills May 26 #32
Maybe what YouGov meant was that 19 million eligible voters didn't turn out? CrispyQ May 27 #58
believe me, repuke elites have these same sorts of events cadoman May 26 #26
Young men feel like they have lost their power Tree Lady May 26 #22
That's a lot of kids right now womanofthehills May 26 #33
I think part of it is giving too much to the kids Tree Lady May 26 #37
I don't know how young people afford to buy a house today, CrispyQ May 27 #63
My daughter 46 making over 200k Tree Lady May 27 #74
Social media has convinced too many that they can make tons of money online or in some get rich scheme tulipsandroses May 27 #78
Exactly this is the issue with my grandson Tree Lady May 27 #84
all they need to do is use simpler language, more baby talk, a lot of googoo, gaagaa and maybe they can get through to ImNotGod May 26 #23
Unfortunately, what it takes to "please" the portion of men Bettie May 26 #25
Let me guess - they are using the very same strategists who put the party in this position to try to get us out of it. Midwestern Democrat May 26 #27
Bingo n/t Sympthsical May 26 #40
Kind of like "our big brain is gonna get us out of this mess that our big brain got us in." CrispyQ May 27 #65
Does that mean I have to grunt and scratch my crotch? Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin May 26 #30
Well, one just needs read most of the responses in this thread and it is understood that men are not welcome here Alpeduez21 May 26 #31
What would you, personally, like to hear from the party? WhiskeyGrinder May 27 #55
Some of what I'd like to hear we cant discuss here. Callie1979 May 28 #101
You are correct RJ-MacReady May 27 #73
Many think the podcasts won the election. womanofthehills May 26 #35
That makes sense to me, especially in light of the recent study that men, especially young men, don't read much anymore. CrispyQ May 27 #66
What a waste of money JI7 May 26 #39
Is this a job creation program? jalan48 May 26 #41
So I guess this means that minorities will be thrown under the bus? DSandra May 26 #42
Why does it have to be either or? RJ-MacReady May 27 #76
Maybe instead of blowing millions of dollars MorbidButterflyTat May 27 #43
DU may ridicule, but I agree with the findings. Wanderlust988 May 27 #45
I'm pretty sure few Democrats use those terms. Anybody know? I remember AOC defending "Latinx": betsuni May 27 #46
Elizabeth Warren Shrek May 27 #53
This doesn't help RJ-MacReady May 28 #100
According to Pew pattyloutwo May 27 #57
The biggest mistake Democrats have made is failing to tell people when they've done something good. Vinca May 27 #47
That says more about young people that it does the party. walkingman May 27 #51
I suspect that SS and Medicare rank really low on the list of what your average 25 yr old is concerned about MichMan May 28 #105
I just gave that as an example because they're among the biggest and most successful programs. What would a 25 Vinca May 28 #110
Why we'll keep right on losing. Passages May 27 #48
In my view we need a strategy that will answer 2 questions. Prairie_Seagull May 27 #49
Two parties and both have lost their way. nt Autumn May 27 #50
I have a better idea gab13by13 May 27 #52
Actually all they needed to do was undo Reagan's actions. Blue Full Moon May 27 #56
Women make up nearly half of the working class. Quiet Em May 27 #60
We need new leaders that don't come across as wimps. It doesn't matter how stupid you doc03 May 27 #61
Obama was pretty good at reaching young men: a dynamic messenger promoting "hope and change" andym May 27 #62
Bernie just showed how to do it. Save your millions. thought crime May 27 #64
We're losing the culture war Sympthsical May 27 #67
Interesting EarlG May 27 #71
I feared this would be more or less the shape of the response Sympthsical May 27 #72
No need for a straw man EarlG May 27 #75
Keeping it very simple - a question Sympthsical May 27 #79
So much crap you've said... Brenda May 27 #87
Have you seen some of our national rhetoric towards Latinos? Sympthsical May 27 #90
This message was self-deleted by its author Brenda May 27 #91
This message was self-deleted by its author Brenda May 27 #89
You asked me a direct question EarlG May 27 #93
I actually agree with much you say here Sympthsical May 28 #102
Hostility towards males here? Brenda May 28 #108
No, I got it Sympthsical May 28 #109
Sorry for the late reply EarlG May 30 #112
Sorry, this got lost in the shuffle and just saw it Sympthsical Jun 2 #113
I completely agree with this and your later post as well. Abolishinist May 27 #77
This is the part i ageee with: "ever-changing list of cultural offenses people must be persecuted for committing" LearnedHand May 27 #81
Well said. Littlered May 27 #82
The odd thing is, I don't think this moralizing tone fujiyamasan May 27 #86
Thanks for these posts. BluesRunTheGame May 27 #95
Agreed. I came of age politically in the 1980s and being a liberal minded young man inclined towards intellectualism Midwestern Democrat May 28 #97
NAFTA was, in my opinion, a HUGE political blunder. BluesRunTheGame May 28 #98
It made me glad. LAS14 May 27 #69
I'm so tired of Democrats blaming voters for our electoral failures biocube May 27 #70
Hard to do when the infinite dark money ads define you. BlueTsunami2018 May 27 #80
Are they taking Faux pas May 27 #83
They Couldn't Have Rented... ProfessorGAC May 27 #85
We need to reach young men too. Initech May 27 #88
That's the biggest pile of horseshit I have seen in some time... kentuck May 27 #92
Working class young men are pretty much like foreign people. kerry-is-my-prez May 27 #94
Once again these "consultants" fujiyamasan May 28 #96
The Dems must learn to jerk off a mic. Clouds Passing May 28 #104
Here's the answer: lots of Democratic men are racist and sexist. That's why they Scrivener7 May 28 #106
Save money, just listen to Trump's rally speeches Deminpenn May 28 #107
The solution: "holing up in luxury hotel rooms" is the problem. usonian May 28 #111
Doing yard maintenance Tree Lady Jun 2 #114
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