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EarlG

(23,058 posts)
93. You asked me a direct question
Tue May 27, 2025, 08:21 PM
May 27

"How do you square this idea of being champion of marginalized populations when those same populations are migrating towards your opponent?" You already know my answer to this because you read it back to me: "Propaganda."

But you're missing the point. I'm not saying that we have a "messaging problem." I'm saying that Republicans are taking advantage of a massive, billionaire-controlled propaganda system that is very, very good at convincing people not to believe their own lying eyes, while Democrats are trying to be the reality-based party in a nation that is increasingly retreating into fantasy. I'm not really arguing much beyond that point. I think it's the obvious elephant in the room that all these other explanations for our losses are absolutely related to, but we are talking around. Maybe the problem just seems too big and unsolvable, but like climate change, it exists.

See: Many Hispanics voted Republican because they supported the removal of criminal illegal immigrants. They are now subject to masked, armed men coming into their neighborhoods, busting down doors, breaking car windows, and hauling their non-criminal neighbors and family members off to undisclosed locations.

See: Many farmers voted Republican because they wanted to cut government spending. They are now struggling financially because Trump eradicated the USAID program.

See: Blue collar workers who voted Republican because they wanted DOGE to cut government waste are losing their jobs because DOGE is randomly shutting down research facilities in ruby-red areas of the country.

Should we be impressed by the fact that many of these people were conned -- by a convicted con man, let's not forget -- into voting for something they didn't know they were going to get? Is that what we're trying to emulate?

When the above policies cause enough pain, a strong democracy should be self-righting, because people who are unhappy with the way things are going will vote for the party that's out of power. And yet, it remains to be seen if that will happen this time around, because we are now all subject to a massive billionaire-controlled propaganda machine which is interfering with that self-righting process, not to mention a rogue government that is highly likely to fuck with the election process.

That machine has spent the last few years convincing people that America's REAL problems are that the Democratic Party wants litterboxes in classrooms for furries, or the Democratic Party wants to abolish the police entirely, or the Democratic Party wants completely open borders. None of that is true, but millions of people believe it. So how does one find common ground with people who aren't even operating on the same level of reality? How does one find common ground when even allies such as yourself seem to be buying into and spreading that same propaganda?

How does one find common ground, when allies such as yourself believe that the Democrats have a "dogmatic authoritarian" problem when -- just off the top of my head -- the current administration is illegally dismantling government institutions, firing highly competent professionals for lack of political loyalty, trying to deport millions of brown-skinned people while rolling out the red carpet for white Afrikaners, trying to force a specific religion down everyone's throats, and throwing patriotic transgender service members who just want to serve their country out of the military? What about the naked bribery and corruption that is taking place at the highest level? Don't come back to me and say, "Blah blah you're just saying Republicans are bad, and we all know that." The vile, unconstitutional behavior we've all witnessed over the past few months cannot possibly be hand-waved that easily.

To me, much of what Democratic Party stands for comes down to empathy, which is something that, unfortunately, I see you demonstrating very little of. You've told me that you're in your 40s and in a stable relationship -- I don't know if you're married, but you have that choice if you want. And yet the arguments you're making now are the exact same arguments that people used to try to deny you those rights just twenty years ago. Opponents said that the nation wouldn't be able to handle it. It was too weird. It was too crazy. It would cost us elections. And now here you are, making the exact same argument against others who are less fortunate than you.

Perhaps you also believe that pushing an allegedly feminine concept like empathy is another reason we lose elections, to which I would say, indeed -- one of those aforementioned billionaires who happens to control a massive propaganda machine is already working hard to try to turn the concept of empathy into something toxic.

Bottom line, I suspect there's little progress to be made here, and we will have to agree to disagree.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

lmaooooo what on earth WhiskeyGrinder May 26 #1
How about, hildegaard28 May 26 #2
+ 100!! CrispyQ May 26 #5
The big brains hildegaard28 May 26 #10
IMHO atreides1 May 28 #103
Ill throw one out: legalize a distinction between wages and income, Volaris May 27 #44
I don't think it's the economy. They have been trained to hate liberals and Democrats, travelingthrulife May 27 #59
Exactly Rebl2 May 28 #99
There's nothing wrong with Dems trying to plan a strategy senseandsensibility May 26 #3
Ahhhhh--More "Bad Things About Democrats". Kingofalldems May 26 #4
Oh those Democrats! Doing what people say they should, learn to speak to the working class. But ... but ... THE HOTEL. betsuni May 26 #29
Bad? Sound like they're researching what went wrong. WarGamer May 26 #36
Lost the WH, House, Senate, Judiciary GreatGazoo May 27 #68
Why is that a bad thing? Mountainguy May 26 #6
I am done with male victimhood Ritabert May 26 #7
I think the male bashing when male concerns are considered Alpeduez21 May 26 #21
I'm laughing....my wife said, "Why don't they just go to school walkingman May 26 #8
Or they could take a page from republican men kacekwl May 27 #54
it's my party........everybody sing along now. nt msongs May 26 #9
... Celerity May 26 #14
Judy;s gonna get what's coming to her.... nt msongs May 26 #16
DNC giving me a good reason to ignore donation appeals. nt delisen May 26 #11
I don't understand why people have a problem with this, republicans got in power because of stuff like this unblock May 26 #12
I think a lack of authenticity might be the problem LearnedHand May 26 #34
I think Democrats focus test too much AZProgressive May 26 #38
cringe level 7 Celerity May 26 #13
Not taking the bait on every single culture war issue the GOP conjures up costs nothing. BannonsLiver May 26 #15
"donors and strategists holing up in luxury hotel rooms" Retrograde May 26 #17
It's the "cost" that bothers me most. lees1975 May 26 #18
The only issue I see here is the "luxury hotel room" thing jmowreader May 26 #19
Why are you framing this so negatively? Prairie Gates May 26 #20
I posted the title and 4 paragraphs verbatim TheProle May 26 #24
How do you make a stupid idea look better? leftstreet May 26 #28
According to YouGov it was 19 million womanofthehills May 26 #32
Maybe what YouGov meant was that 19 million eligible voters didn't turn out? CrispyQ May 27 #58
believe me, repuke elites have these same sorts of events cadoman May 26 #26
Young men feel like they have lost their power Tree Lady May 26 #22
That's a lot of kids right now womanofthehills May 26 #33
I think part of it is giving too much to the kids Tree Lady May 26 #37
I don't know how young people afford to buy a house today, CrispyQ May 27 #63
My daughter 46 making over 200k Tree Lady May 27 #74
Social media has convinced too many that they can make tons of money online or in some get rich scheme tulipsandroses May 27 #78
Exactly this is the issue with my grandson Tree Lady May 27 #84
all they need to do is use simpler language, more baby talk, a lot of googoo, gaagaa and maybe they can get through to ImNotGod May 26 #23
Unfortunately, what it takes to "please" the portion of men Bettie May 26 #25
Let me guess - they are using the very same strategists who put the party in this position to try to get us out of it. Midwestern Democrat May 26 #27
Bingo n/t Sympthsical May 26 #40
Kind of like "our big brain is gonna get us out of this mess that our big brain got us in." CrispyQ May 27 #65
Does that mean I have to grunt and scratch my crotch? Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin May 26 #30
Well, one just needs read most of the responses in this thread and it is understood that men are not welcome here Alpeduez21 May 26 #31
What would you, personally, like to hear from the party? WhiskeyGrinder May 27 #55
Some of what I'd like to hear we cant discuss here. Callie1979 May 28 #101
You are correct RJ-MacReady May 27 #73
Many think the podcasts won the election. womanofthehills May 26 #35
That makes sense to me, especially in light of the recent study that men, especially young men, don't read much anymore. CrispyQ May 27 #66
What a waste of money JI7 May 26 #39
Is this a job creation program? jalan48 May 26 #41
So I guess this means that minorities will be thrown under the bus? DSandra May 26 #42
Why does it have to be either or? RJ-MacReady May 27 #76
Maybe instead of blowing millions of dollars MorbidButterflyTat May 27 #43
DU may ridicule, but I agree with the findings. Wanderlust988 May 27 #45
I'm pretty sure few Democrats use those terms. Anybody know? I remember AOC defending "Latinx": betsuni May 27 #46
Elizabeth Warren Shrek May 27 #53
This doesn't help RJ-MacReady May 28 #100
According to Pew pattyloutwo May 27 #57
The biggest mistake Democrats have made is failing to tell people when they've done something good. Vinca May 27 #47
That says more about young people that it does the party. walkingman May 27 #51
I suspect that SS and Medicare rank really low on the list of what your average 25 yr old is concerned about MichMan May 28 #105
I just gave that as an example because they're among the biggest and most successful programs. What would a 25 Vinca May 28 #110
Why we'll keep right on losing. Passages May 27 #48
In my view we need a strategy that will answer 2 questions. Prairie_Seagull May 27 #49
Two parties and both have lost their way. nt Autumn May 27 #50
I have a better idea gab13by13 May 27 #52
Actually all they needed to do was undo Reagan's actions. Blue Full Moon May 27 #56
Women make up nearly half of the working class. Quiet Em May 27 #60
We need new leaders that don't come across as wimps. It doesn't matter how stupid you doc03 May 27 #61
Obama was pretty good at reaching young men: a dynamic messenger promoting "hope and change" andym May 27 #62
Bernie just showed how to do it. Save your millions. thought crime May 27 #64
We're losing the culture war Sympthsical May 27 #67
Interesting EarlG May 27 #71
I feared this would be more or less the shape of the response Sympthsical May 27 #72
No need for a straw man EarlG May 27 #75
Keeping it very simple - a question Sympthsical May 27 #79
So much crap you've said... Brenda May 27 #87
Have you seen some of our national rhetoric towards Latinos? Sympthsical May 27 #90
This message was self-deleted by its author Brenda May 27 #91
This message was self-deleted by its author Brenda May 27 #89
You asked me a direct question EarlG May 27 #93
I actually agree with much you say here Sympthsical May 28 #102
Hostility towards males here? Brenda May 28 #108
No, I got it Sympthsical May 28 #109
Sorry for the late reply EarlG May 30 #112
Sorry, this got lost in the shuffle and just saw it Sympthsical Jun 2 #113
I completely agree with this and your later post as well. Abolishinist May 27 #77
This is the part i ageee with: "ever-changing list of cultural offenses people must be persecuted for committing" LearnedHand May 27 #81
Well said. Littlered May 27 #82
The odd thing is, I don't think this moralizing tone fujiyamasan May 27 #86
Thanks for these posts. BluesRunTheGame May 27 #95
Agreed. I came of age politically in the 1980s and being a liberal minded young man inclined towards intellectualism Midwestern Democrat May 28 #97
NAFTA was, in my opinion, a HUGE political blunder. BluesRunTheGame May 28 #98
It made me glad. LAS14 May 27 #69
I'm so tired of Democrats blaming voters for our electoral failures biocube May 27 #70
Hard to do when the infinite dark money ads define you. BlueTsunami2018 May 27 #80
Are they taking Faux pas May 27 #83
They Couldn't Have Rented... ProfessorGAC May 27 #85
We need to reach young men too. Initech May 27 #88
That's the biggest pile of horseshit I have seen in some time... kentuck May 27 #92
Working class young men are pretty much like foreign people. kerry-is-my-prez May 27 #94
Once again these "consultants" fujiyamasan May 28 #96
The Dems must learn to jerk off a mic. Clouds Passing May 28 #104
Here's the answer: lots of Democratic men are racist and sexist. That's why they Scrivener7 May 28 #106
Save money, just listen to Trump's rally speeches Deminpenn May 28 #107
The solution: "holing up in luxury hotel rooms" is the problem. usonian May 28 #111
Doing yard maintenance Tree Lady Jun 2 #114
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