There are no affirming Churches because true Christianity is not an affirming religion--end christopretensism

[Jose Flavio Sanchez]

[walkingman]

1. Interesting....our previous interaction led me to explore your viewpoint.

As an atheist I am cynical of religion but open to enlightenment. ☮

[Jose Flavio Sanchez]

2. I would rather people who believe in LGBTQ+ call themselves atheist or pagan

Christianity is not like gender where it means whatever people want it to mean. Christianity is a well defined group of beliefs based on theistic philosophy and divine revelation.

[Ocelot II]

3. Many LGBTQ+ people are not atheists or pagans at all, but are devout Christians.

Who are you to decide who is or isn't a Christian? And whose "divine revelation" are we talking about? Please cite an instance where Jesus mentions homosexuality. Also, one doesn't "believe in" LGBTQ+ any more than one believes in being left-handed or having red hair. It's a characteristic, one of many possible characteristics of humanity, not a belief.

[Jose Flavio Sanchez]

8. LGBTQ+ are verbs not nouns

Making verbs identities is praxisidentism.

[Ocelot II]

10. What right-wing sewer did this nonsense come from?

A particular characteristic of a person doesn't mean that characteristic defines the person's entire being. If a person is a gay male musician, for example, is his "identity" that of a gay person or a man or a musician? Why can't he just be a human being with an assortment of characteristics and abilities like all other human beings? Likewise, a person who "identifies" as Christian is simply saying that he/she accepts the tenets of one of the established Christian denominations. That person could also be a gay male musician, all at the same time. I am personally acquainted with a number of gay male Christian musicians and not one of them reduces any of those aspects to an identity.

[Jose Flavio Sanchez]

12. This has to do with the philosophy of love the sinner but hate the sin

[Ocelot II]

14. Which sin from that list must we hate? Carpentry? Gaming?

Or only same-sex attraction, which Jesus never mentioned? If that's it, then you are advocating for a "religion" that preaches bigotry with no scriptural basis.

[ThreeNoSeep]

4. Hmmm.

Somebody is pretending.

[Ocelot II]

5. Indeed.

[no_hypocrisy]

6. And this is why I subscribe to humanism, atheism, free thought, and ethical culture.

It's self-sustaining, not affirming.

It's accepting of all faiths with the exception of those who use their faith to discriminate and practice bigotry against others.

I can be in the pews of a church, singing a hymn and I don't feel pressured to convert or to question my beliefs.

I support the faith of others. My Truth isn't superior to their Truth(s).

[Jose Flavio Sanchez]

7. All religions can't be true

[no_hypocrisy]

9. It's subjective and personally true.

As long as the others don't impede my "truth", it's all good.

[Ocelot II]

11. How do we know which one is "true"? Who decides?

The Spanish Inquisition decided by torturing and killing people. Wars have been fought over what the "true" religion is. Is that what we want?

[Jose Flavio Sanchez]

13. It's up to philosophers/theologians to debate and discuss

I have ideas but my point here is that we should be allowed to have this conversation instead of defaulting to "respect all religions" because only one religion can be true. All religions can contain some truth but they're not all fully true.

[Ocelot II]

15. So as long as we're debating, which religion is the fully true one, and why?

If the true religion is Christianity, which of its many versions is also the true and correct one? If you really believe that there is only one true religion, don't pass that opinion off to philosophers and theologians, who don't agree either. What do YOU think?