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Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin

(137,316 posts)
Sat May 16, 2026, 02:43 PM 8 hrs ago

What is 'Thucydides trap,' mentioned during Trump-Xi meeting?

On Thursday, Chinese President Xi Jinping told President Trump ahead of their high-stakes meeting in Beijing that the major question that China and the U.S. will have to answer is whether they can avoid the “Thucydides Trap.”

Xi asked if both countries can overcome the “Thucydides Trap and create a new paradigm of major country relations?” according to CNBC, citing the Chinese-based outlet CCTV. The Chinese president has used the term as far back as 2014, Bloomberg reported.

Xi also warned Trump about tensions between both countries over Taiwan, arguing that “‘Taiwan independence’ and cross-Strait peace are as irreconcilable as fire and water,” Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Mao Ning wrote on the social platform X.

The concept of a “Thucydides Trap,” popularized in the early 2010s by Harvard University political scientist Graham Allison, borrows the name of ancient Athenian historian Thucydides. Allison’s concept postulates that the threat of war exists when tensions escalate between a rising power and a ruling power before ultimately leading to conflict.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/thucydides-trap-mentioned-during-trump-151112926.html

A woosh sound came from Trump's vicinity when Xi said that.

6 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
What is 'Thucydides trap,' mentioned during Trump-Xi meeting? (Original Post) Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin 8 hrs ago OP
Doubt if TSF can pronounce Thucydides. Sneederbunk 8 hrs ago #1
Or an STD (nt) muriel_volestrangler 7 hrs ago #3
I asked the same question... sop 8 hrs ago #2
2015 Article in The Atlantic by Graham Allison... ultralite001 6 hrs ago #4
Here is what Gemini sez: Disaffected 6 hrs ago #5
Bottom line...as nasty a group of people as the Spartans were, the Athenians were even bigger d*cks. pecosbob 4 hrs ago #6

ultralite001

(2,668 posts)
4. 2015 Article in The Atlantic by Graham Allison...
Sat May 16, 2026, 04:47 PM
6 hrs ago

"The Thucydides Trap"...

“The preeminent geostrategic
challenge of this era is not violent
Islamic extremists or a resurgent Russia.
It is the impact of China’s ascendance.”


https://www.hks.harvard.edu/sites/default/files/centers/mrcbg/files/Allison,%202015.09.24%20The%20Atlantic%20-%20Thucydides%20Trap.pdf

“The preeminent geostrategic
challenge of this era is not violent
Islamic extremists or a resurgent Russia.
It is the impact of China’s ascendance.”

Disaffected

(6,561 posts)
5. Here is what Gemini sez:
Sat May 16, 2026, 04:54 PM
6 hrs ago

.....................

The Thucydides Trap is a term in international relations popularized by American political scientist Graham Allison. It describes a severe structural stress that occurs when a rising power threatens to displace a ruling power, often resulting in war.

The core idea is that conflict in these situations is rarely caused by a single event or malice, but rather by the intense fear, insecurity, and miscalculation that naturally develop between the two competing nations.

Origin of the Term
The term is named after Thucydides, an ancient Athenian historian and military general who wrote the History of the Peloponnesian War (5th Century BCE).

When analyzing why the devastating war broke out between the two dominant Greek city-states of his time, Thucydides famously concluded:

"It was the rise of Athens and the fear that this inspired in Sparta that made war inevitable."

In this classic dynamic:

Sparta was the established, dominant ruling power.

Athens was the rapidly growing, dynamic rising power.

The Harvard Case Studies
To see if this pattern held true throughout history, Graham Allison and his team at the Harvard Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs reviewed 16 historical cases over the last 500 years where a rising power confronted a ruling power.

The results were stark:

12 out of 16 cases ended in war.

4 out of 16 cases managed to avoid war through massive diplomatic efforts, structural adjustments, and strategic restraint.

Examples of the Trap Ending in War
Early 20th Century: The rise of the German Empire challenged the global dominance of the British Empire, which heavily contributed to the outbreak of World War I.

Late 18th/Early 19th Century: France under Napoleon challenged Britain's dominant position, leading to the Napoleonic Wars.

Examples of War Avoided
Late 19th/Early 20th Century: The rise of the United States challenged the UK's global dominance, but the two nations managed a peaceful transition of hegemony.

Mid-20th Century (The Cold War): The Soviet Union challenged the United States, but the existence of nuclear weapons created a system of Mutual Assured Destruction (MAD) that prevented direct military conflict.

Modern Relevance: US vs. China
Today, the term is most frequently invoked by geopolitical analysts and world leaders to describe the relationship between the United States (the ruling power) and China (the rising power).

As China’s economy, technology, and military have grown over the past few decades, frictions have increased over trade, global influence, technology, and regional flashpoints like Taiwan and the South China Sea. Political figures on both sides—including Chinese President Xi Jinping—have explicitly referenced the Thucydides Trap as a dangerous historical precedent that both Washington and Beijing must actively work together to avoid.

.........................

pecosbob

(8,489 posts)
6. Bottom line...as nasty a group of people as the Spartans were, the Athenians were even bigger d*cks.
Sat May 16, 2026, 06:52 PM
4 hrs ago

The primary reason for the Pelopennesian Wars were too many hungry pirates in too small a sea. The lesson not learned was that people need to not to be a**holes.

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