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Autumn

(47,891 posts)
Sat May 24, 2025, 01:04 PM Yesterday

Netanyahu Says Israel Will Not Back Down Until Gaza Is Emptied of Palestinians

The Israeli leader endorsed Trump’s plan for the forced displacement of all Palestinians from Gaza.

https://truthout.org/articles/netanyahu-says-israel-will-not-back-down-until-gaza-is-emptied-of-palestinians/?

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has vowed that Israel will not end its genocide in Gaza until it achieves its goal of the total forced displacement of Palestinians from Gaza, as outlined by U.S. President Donald Trump in his “Riviera” plan that experts say would violate international law.

In a press conference on Wednesday, Netanyahu said that the goal of the current offensive is for Israel to control “all” of Gaza, and for the region to be demilitarized. He said that the only way Israel will end its assault is if Palestinians in Gaza are totally disarmed and Trump’s plan is realized — meaning that Gaza will be emptied of Palestinians, either by death or expulsion.

Netanyahu’s comments were made in the context of stalled ceasefire talks between Israel and Hamas, with the Israeli leader seemingly setting the implementation of the plan as a condition for negotiations. In other words, Netanyahu has said that Israel will not agree to stop its slaughter until it can declare total victory.
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Netanyahu Says Israel Will Not Back Down Until Gaza Is Emptied of Palestinians (Original Post) Autumn Yesterday OP
Somebody parse that shit. Iggo Yesterday #1
Ethnic cleansing. Not a suprise by now. brush Yesterday #4
Or genocide. I remember when Jews really hated that. Grins Yesterday #21
Mass murder and / ethic clensing speak easy Yesterday #28
Both terms are very similar... Violet_Crumble Yesterday #50
It's both. Netanyahu is a warmonger openly doing both that was once done to Jews. brush Yesterday #43
He needs to be shown what the United States used to do to genocidal terrorists. Initech 22 hrs ago #68
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Isaac Asimov Ping Tung Yesterday #2
Crime against humanity JCMach1 Yesterday #3
I am NOT saying that lightly. I am on the record here at DU JCMach1 Yesterday #25
Israeli policy is very clear at this point fujiyamasan 21 hrs ago #71
Don't believe your lying ears. First we had to question our own eyes, now we can't trust our ears. Pisces Yesterday #5
Every decent country in the world should shun Israel. sinkingfeeling Yesterday #6
But I thought D_Master81 Yesterday #7
Not everyone saw the hidden agenda...or pretended not to. AloeVera Yesterday #56
Israel wasn't founded on ethnic cleansing. 21% of Israel's citizens are Palestinian citizens of Israel. lapucelle 14 hrs ago #77
Someone should read a book. AloeVera 12 hrs ago #82
Yes, even the babies, toddlers, elderly people, and all women must be murdered because they're Hamas. Lonestarblue 9 hrs ago #102
A good Israeli moved to Mexico Goddessartist 9 hrs ago #103
Those who decided not to vote, Maru Kitteh Yesterday #8
You won't like this, or many here. AloeVera 23 hrs ago #58
And those who encouraged their constituents to NOT support Biden or Harris. Where is she now? Oopsie Daisy 11 hrs ago #87
This is right up there . . . Richard D Yesterday #9
That Two State Solution? Problem solved. surfered Yesterday #10
Absolutely! Richard D Yesterday #11
Personally, I was hoping the two sides could reach a two state solution. surfered Yesterday #13
It was possible . . . Richard D Yesterday #16
It would not be too late if the Gulf States took over speak easy Yesterday #30
War crime is an easy label to toss... Richard D Yesterday #32
a "surrender by Hamas" speak easy Yesterday #38
That's happening now Richard D Yesterday #39
The problem is neither Hamas nor the various rightwing parties in Israel want that EdmondDantes_ 23 hrs ago #61
The only thing Israel is accomplishing right now, is killing more human beings. everyonematters Yesterday #17
This is highly debatable Richard D Yesterday #18
Ok, explain in as much detail as you can. What are they accomplishing right now in Gaza? everyonematters Yesterday #23
That's encouraging Mossfern Yesterday #45
I have seen it reported in reputable news sources. everyonematters 23 hrs ago #63
Which ones? Mossfern 22 hrs ago #70
Here is an article. everyonematters 12 hrs ago #85
I did a bit of resarch myself after my post to you Mossfern 11 hrs ago #90
There is a lot of hate and atrocities going on from both sides. everyonematters 11 hrs ago #92
Ah.... The "both sides" argument. Mossfern 10 hrs ago #94
The people in Gaza have no control over Hamas. The leaders of Hamas are not in Gaza. everyonematters 10 hrs ago #96
How do you propose Israel protect itself? Mossfern 10 hrs ago #97
They can start by not abusing the Palestinians with things like the settlements and pushing people out of their homes. everyonematters 9 hrs ago #98
I agree with you about the settlements, but Mossfern 7 hrs ago #107
Who wants to eradicate who? AloeVera 2 hrs ago #111
Ben Gurion SLClarke Yesterday #34
I'm so old that I learned about a country called "Palestine" in grade school. OMGWTF Yesterday #22
I belive that back before the partition Mossfern Yesterday #46
Yes, they lived fairly peacefully with the Arab population AloeVera Yesterday #57
14,000 not 44,000 in two days and not true in either case. PufPuf23 Yesterday #54
Nobody can call it anything other than Ethnic Cleansing. Israeli apologists on this forum, notwithstanding. And, no, two artemisia1 Yesterday #12
Impossible! Orrex Yesterday #14
I agree, Butterflylady Yesterday #20
I know, right? Oh the good 'ole days of shaming and ridicule... AloeVera 23 hrs ago #60
Yet Biden and Harris were the problem. LisaM Yesterday #15
There is a no state solution now for Gaza, and those that helped enabled a Trump victory ensured that. W_HAMILTON Yesterday #31
And once he's done with the people in Gaza Bettie Yesterday #36
Yes, and Kshama Sawant, erstwhile Seattle City Council member, is part of that. LisaM Yesterday #37
Saudis enid602 17 hrs ago #76
I never hear bdamomma 1 hr ago #116
But julmur Yesterday #19
David vs Goliath, and Goliath is not backing down! jalan48 Yesterday #24
Now that's textbook genocide Walleye Yesterday #26
... and in The End... Mike Nelson Yesterday #27
We warned people of this. W_HAMILTON Yesterday #29
Translation: Chasstev365 Yesterday #33
So, NOW can we call it Bettie Yesterday #35
Israeli settlers attacked a village near Bethlehem just hours ago, killing livestock belonging to Palestinians red dog 1 Yesterday #40
Well, guess the West Bank Bettie Yesterday #41
It's been happening since Oct 7th. AloeVera 23 hrs ago #64
It's been happening there for years Bettie 22 hrs ago #69
This is a decision that was made about 10 minutes after the terror attack (if not before), by the way Takket Yesterday #42
This comes as no surprise. For reference, and if anyone is interested in doing really deep diving Nanjeanne Yesterday #44
I hope people do go to their site. Eye-opening. AloeVera 23 hrs ago #65
Would be worthwhile. But don't expect it. Nanjeanne 23 hrs ago #67
I went to the website, ProPublica, and then to (oh dear) SourceWatch. lapucelle 13 hrs ago #78
Influence Watch is run by a conservative think tank. Violet_Crumble 12 hrs ago #80
Propublica names Simone Zimmermann as their executive director, but she's nowhere to be found lapucelle 3 hrs ago #110
This message was self-deleted by its author Violet_Crumble 12 hrs ago #81
Sums it up nicely and accurately. Thanks, I'm saving this. AloeVera 12 hrs ago #83
If by "sums it up nicely" you mean more agenda-driven than fact-based, then yes. lapucelle 4 hrs ago #109
That's nice. Did you read many of the articles? Did you read about the orgs that have given them awards? Nanjeanne 12 hrs ago #84
No. I researched the funding, board, and executive director. lapucelle 4 hrs ago #108
Maybe they don't list the US Director on their site. *shrug* Nanjeanne 2 hrs ago #112
Well, given her history, keeping her name on the downlow seems smart. lapucelle 1 hr ago #114
Less time than Max Berger, co-founder of IfNotNow who served as aide to Warren's presidential campaign Nanjeanne 1 hr ago #115
Yitzak Rabin, Yasser Arafat and the Oslo Accords Andy Canuck Yesterday #47
Ethnic cleansing is officially an aim of this war. David__77 Yesterday #48
Damn it all to hell.. where are these people supposed to go?? Peacetrain Yesterday #49
What's certain is that they shouldn't have to leave their own country. David__77 23 hrs ago #66
Ummmmm . . . . . wasn't that the goal of Hamas? no_hypocrisy Yesterday #51
Your assertion is that Israel is no better than a vile terrorist regime? Orrex Yesterday #53
That's your conclusion. I was pointing out the goals are similar, if not the same. no_hypocrisy 17 hrs ago #75
It's the conclusion that follows logically from what you wrote Orrex 11 hrs ago #86
Hatred on both sides cancel each other out. no_hypocrisy 11 hrs ago #88
Ah yes. Deuteronomy. Orrex 11 hrs ago #89
He will claudette Yesterday #52
Yeeee,.... Haaaaaa ! magicarpet Yesterday #55
There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people. Howard Zinn Ping Tung 23 hrs ago #59
Don't know about you, but this sounds like genocide to me. Ethnic cleansing at a minimum. Jit423 23 hrs ago #62
Uh huh. "Never again," apparently didn't mean "never." Scrivener7 13 hrs ago #79
Follow the links: he doesn't say that Bad Thoughts 21 hrs ago #72
He said the depopulation plan must be implemented. He's a racist and ethnic cleansing is officially a war aim. David__77 20 hrs ago #73
Quote Netanyahu, please! Bad Thoughts 20 hrs ago #74
Here you go David__77 10 hrs ago #93
Fail! No quote that directly addresses the issue Bad Thoughts 9 hrs ago #100
In this press confrence he said "Trump's "revolutionary" plan to relocate Gaza's civilians Autumn 10 hrs ago #95
Trump walked back the resettlement requirement Bad Thoughts 9 hrs ago #99
Show me where he didn't say it. As of May 22 he said Trump is still commited to it. Autumn 9 hrs ago #104
Watch here Bad Thoughts 8 hrs ago #105
May 22 Netanyahoo said Trump was still committed to the plan Autumn 7 hrs ago #106
Oh, so it ISN't about the Hamas attack after all LearnedHand 11 hrs ago #91
He isn't doing this by himself. Klarkashton 9 hrs ago #101
Bibi bdamomma 1 hr ago #113
The Andrew Jackson of Israel, except much worse n/t AntiFascist 1 hr ago #117

Grins

(8,376 posts)
21. Or genocide. I remember when Jews really hated that.
Sat May 24, 2025, 03:19 PM
Yesterday

When it was done to them. The PM of Israel is being honest about his intention to do it to others.

speak easy

(11,489 posts)
28. Mass murder and / ethic clensing
Sat May 24, 2025, 03:45 PM
Yesterday

are not genocide any more than the WWII atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki or the expulsion of Germans from Silesia was genocide.

Israel's actions in Gaza are crimes against humanity and war crimes.

Violet_Crumble

(36,273 posts)
50. Both terms are very similar...
Sat May 24, 2025, 07:46 PM
Yesterday

Sometimes genocide will involve ethnic cleansing and both terms are used interchangeably, though genocide of course carries the biggest emotional hit.

Trump and Netanyahu's plan to expel Palestinians is definitely ethnic cleansing, though I think what's been happening in Gaza and the words of Israeli government ministers is verging on genocidal.

brush

(59,977 posts)
43. It's both. Netanyahu is a warmonger openly doing both that was once done to Jews.
Sat May 24, 2025, 05:40 PM
Yesterday

Israel deserves better.

Initech

(104,915 posts)
68. He needs to be shown what the United States used to do to genocidal terrorists.
Sat May 24, 2025, 10:15 PM
22 hrs ago

JCMach1

(28,681 posts)
25. I am NOT saying that lightly. I am on the record here at DU
Sat May 24, 2025, 03:27 PM
Yesterday

for giving Israel quite a lot of room to deal with the terrorism issue.

However, once you have checked all the boxes for ethnic cleansing and genocide we have a very different story: a story brought to you by Israel's anti-democracy right-wing.

The key difference needs to be noted in that the US government now actually IS complicit in what is going on with the President of the US actively suggesting ethnic cleansing as the solution in an insane video he posted on social media.

fujiyamasan

(168 posts)
71. Israeli policy is very clear at this point
Sat May 24, 2025, 11:53 PM
21 hrs ago

And unfortunately this is the direction Israeli politics has been taking for a while, as the most extreme figures in Israel started filling Netanyahu’s cabinet. There was some hope following netanyahu’s judicial overhaul, but of course that ended too with the terrorist attacks.

Any actual viable two state solution is dead for the foreseeable future (October 7th guaranteed that). Now it’s just mass death in Gaza, political corruption and a slower death in the West Bank. Abbas is now 90. His death will create a vacuum and who knows where that leads.


Pisces

(5,995 posts)
5. Don't believe your lying ears. First we had to question our own eyes, now we can't trust our ears.
Sat May 24, 2025, 01:23 PM
Yesterday

D_Master81

(2,076 posts)
7. But I thought
Sat May 24, 2025, 01:47 PM
Yesterday

I could’ve sworn it was about defeating Hamas. Apparently now everyone in Gaza is a part of Hamas

AloeVera

(2,801 posts)
56. Not everyone saw the hidden agenda...or pretended not to.
Sat May 24, 2025, 08:50 PM
Yesterday

... though it was "hidden" in plain sight. For example, hiding behind the "human shields!"TM or the bombed-out hospitals and their non-existent "command-and-control" centres. Or behind every Palestinian child killed.

It is about Hamas, though, just not in the way we were told. Hamas simply gave Israel the opportunity and means to do what it was fordained to do. It was founded on ethnic cleansing, after all. But the job wasn't finished.

It's why the Palestinian rights movement and people have been screaming about Israel's end-game. They knew.


lapucelle

(20,203 posts)
77. Israel wasn't founded on ethnic cleansing. 21% of Israel's citizens are Palestinian citizens of Israel.
Sun May 25, 2025, 06:10 AM
14 hrs ago

Arab Israelis sit in the Knesset and an Arab Israeli sits on the Israeli Supreme Court.

Folks need to understand that it never helps to spread misinformation. Some also need to invest in a good dictionary

There is no such word as "fordained".


AloeVera

(2,801 posts)
82. Someone should read a book.
Sun May 25, 2025, 08:43 AM
12 hrs ago


When 85% of a population, or 700,00 people, are expelled or forced to flee through violence, massacres, rapes and burning of their villages so that another people can take over their land + NEVER ALLOWED TO RETURN = what?

No amount of talking points is going to help here...

I can lend you the book and even throw in my 60-year old dictionary.

Your response is foreordained (fordained in Aloe vernacular) and likely not responded to.

Lonestarblue

(12,629 posts)
102. Yes, even the babies, toddlers, elderly people, and all women must be murdered because they're Hamas.
Sun May 25, 2025, 11:36 AM
9 hrs ago

At least according to Israel. I am saddened that the citizens of Israel do a bit of protesting occasionally but in essence support whatever Netanyahu and his extremist government do to Palestinians. Perhaps the sane ones feel helpless, just as we do with Trump, but there seem to be very few sane ones left.

Goddessartist

(2,076 posts)
103. A good Israeli moved to Mexico
Sun May 25, 2025, 11:52 AM
9 hrs ago

As it was too dangerous for him to stay in Israel.

Alon Mizrahi is on Substack and Twitter. He's brutally honest about that State.

AloeVera

(2,801 posts)
58. You won't like this, or many here.
Sat May 24, 2025, 09:10 PM
23 hrs ago

But the ethnic cleansing was foretold and fordained - in fact made inevitable - by allowing the total destruction of Gaza. Unlivable means people can no longer live there. Perhaps many of those people didn't vote because they saw all this and just became apathetic or disillusioned. All those dead babies killed with their tax dollars probably had the same effect.

Oopsie Daisy

(5,815 posts)
87. And those who encouraged their constituents to NOT support Biden or Harris. Where is she now?
Sun May 25, 2025, 09:21 AM
11 hrs ago

What does she have to say about this? Any regrets?

Richard D

(9,788 posts)
11. Absolutely!
Sat May 24, 2025, 02:36 PM
Yesterday

The more Hamas is rewarded for over 20,000 rockets and mortars at Israel and more than one hundred suicide bombings, the better! Did I forget something? Oh yeah, Oct 7 murders, baby burnings, rapes, dismemberment, torture, and kidnapping.

Plus, they don't want a two-state solution; they want a one-state solution. Theirs.

Richard D

(9,788 posts)
16. It was possible . . .
Sat May 24, 2025, 03:07 PM
Yesterday

. . . On Oct 6, 2023. Now, I don't think the possibility exists.

edit: Well, perhaps if all the hostages are returned in the coming days (not weeks), Hamas surrenders fully and accepts their fates, and the people of Gaza accept a commitment to a peace agreement that would involve getting UNRWA Jew-hate education out of their schools, etc. But, IMNVHO, it's too late even for this.

speak easy

(11,489 posts)
30. It would not be too late if the Gulf States took over
Sat May 24, 2025, 03:47 PM
Yesterday

administration and security in Gaza.

Underlying it all is that bombing buildings won't dislodge Hamas. Continuing to do so with civilian causalities is a war crime.

Richard D

(9,788 posts)
32. War crime is an easy label to toss...
Sat May 24, 2025, 03:57 PM
Yesterday

I don't believe it is. Especially as Israel is still giving advanced warnings. Even now, weapons and tunnels are being destroyed, and high level Hamas leaders are being sent to Jehanna.

Of course, it could end today with releasing all the hostages and surrender by Hamas.

speak easy

(11,489 posts)
38. a "surrender by Hamas"
Sat May 24, 2025, 04:12 PM
Yesterday

... and that is the problem. A semi-religious organization that celebrates death (martyrdom) is most unlikely to surrender. The military solution is the same as it has always been - occupy Gaza and eject/terminate Hamas. Ariel bombardment may minimize IDF causalities, but it won't get the job done.

EdmondDantes_

(483 posts)
61. The problem is neither Hamas nor the various rightwing parties in Israel want that
Sat May 24, 2025, 09:20 PM
23 hrs ago

Hamas has long openly called for Israel to be eliminated and now the current Israeli government is doing so. How do you get to a two state solution when neither party wants it?

everyonematters

(3,808 posts)
17. The only thing Israel is accomplishing right now, is killing more human beings.
Sat May 24, 2025, 03:11 PM
Yesterday

Most Palestinians don't support Hamas. There hasn't been an election in some time.

Mossfern

(3,862 posts)
90. I did a bit of resarch myself after my post to you
Sun May 25, 2025, 09:44 AM
11 hrs ago

I read the article that you posted and am heartened that some Palestinians don't support Hamas.
However ( a more fancy "but" ) according to the article 40% of Palestinians support Hamas,
while in the US about 1/3 support Trump and the Republican party. In Israel:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/72-5-of-israelis-believe-netanyahu-should-take-responsibility-for-oct-7-and-resign/
Almost three-quarters of Israelis believe that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu should take responsibility for the events of October 7, 2023, and resign from his position, according to a survey released on Sunday.



So - a greater percent of Palestinians support Hamas than Americans support Trump or Israelis support Netanyahu

Also, according to your article, there is little empathy for what happened to Israelis on 10/7 among Palestinians.
Now a reason for that, the article says, is that Al Jazeera denies the facts of that day.

However (again) one can't deny the crowds of Palestinians in the streets cheering and beating the bodies
of women raped and killed that day. Tell me that I can't believe my lying eyes ...

Mossfern

(3,862 posts)
94. Ah.... The "both sides" argument.
Sun May 25, 2025, 10:17 AM
10 hrs ago

It is the stated mission of Hamas to eradicate Israel and KILL all Jews.

Remember that more than 70 percent of Israelis want Netanyahu to resign.

everyonematters

(3,808 posts)
96. The people in Gaza have no control over Hamas. The leaders of Hamas are not in Gaza.
Sun May 25, 2025, 10:50 AM
10 hrs ago

There was the original attack, and the Israeli response which is understandable. It is way past the point where I don't see what Israel is accomplishing besides killing more people. I understand the people of Israel are scared and frustrated. That doesn't justify what is going on now.

Mossfern

(3,862 posts)
97. How do you propose Israel protect itself?
Sun May 25, 2025, 10:59 AM
10 hrs ago

Mind you, I don't support the extremity of Israel's response.

Hamas leadership has stated explicitly that they don't care about Palestinians dying. The more "martyrs" the better for their PR. It seems to be a winning strategy for Hamas, not so much for Palestinians.

everyonematters

(3,808 posts)
98. They can start by not abusing the Palestinians with things like the settlements and pushing people out of their homes.
Sun May 25, 2025, 11:10 AM
9 hrs ago

Other than that, I don't know what is going to end this thing. This is what religion can do to societies.

Mossfern

(3,862 posts)
107. I agree with you about the settlements, but
Sun May 25, 2025, 01:45 PM
7 hrs ago

How does Israel deal with the fact that Hamas (with 40% Palestinian approval) claim that their mission
is to eradicate Israel and KILL all Jews?

Understand that Muslims are free to practice their religion publicly in Israel and even have representation in the government there?

What do you propose Palestinians do to create an everlasting peace?
Why does the responsibility fall 100% on Israel?

AloeVera

(2,801 posts)
111. Who wants to eradicate who?
Sun May 25, 2025, 06:38 PM
2 hrs ago

The ugly reality is that a majority of Israelis support the ethnic cleansing of both Gaza (82%!l) and even their OWN Arab-Palestinian CITIZENS (56%). Who btw never had the full rights of the Jewish citizens to begin with. For example, did you know there is a law that declares only Jewish Israelis have the right to self-determimation in Israel?

Hamas offered a 10-year truce and indicated they may be able to get agreement from their people on the 1967 borders. See their 2017 charter.

Israel ignored their offer and continued its blockade of Gaza and building more settlements.

The "Hamas wants to kill all Jews" claim is just BS propaganda. Because if you convince people your enemy wants to kill ALL of you, then all atrocities and war crimes you commit may be overlooked.

The only eradication and killing being done is by Israel. The planned cleansing and erasure of Palestinians has been in the works for over a hundred years. The Zionist founders recognized it was the only way to found and maintain an excusively Jewish state.


https://theconversation.com/in-israel-calls-for-genocide-have-migrated-from-the-margins-to-the-mainstream-250010

Meanwhile, large swaths of the Israeli public appear to support the mass expulsion of Palestinians and condone the concept of genocide in the abstract, according to a recent poll I commissioned through the Israeli polling firm Geocartography.

In the representative sample of Jewish Israelis who were polled from March 10-11, 2025, 82% supported the forced expulsion of Gaza’s population to other countries, while 56% endorsed the expulsion of Israel’s Arab citizens. By comparison, according to a 2003 poll, only 46% supported the “transfer of Palestinian residents of the occupied territories,” and just 31% supported the “transfer of Israel’s Arab citizens.”

Moreover, in my poll I relayed a story from the Book of Joshua, in which the ancient Israelites conquered the city of Jericho and killed all of its inhabitants.

When I asked respondents whether the Israeli army, when conquering an enemy city, should act similarly to the Israelites when they conquered Jericho, 47% of respondents said they should."

SLClarke

(60 posts)
34. Ben Gurion
Sat May 24, 2025, 04:00 PM
Yesterday

Ben Gurion was quite clear that the immigrant Jewish peoples were to take over Palestinian land, this way before he was PM. This is not to downplay HAMAS, but removing the Palestinians was understood from the get-go.
And there is ample evidence that Netanyahu knew about what HAMAS was planning a long time before they actually started bombing. He knew about it and used this as an excuse to go after more territory.
And when he says they will only stop fighting when ALL Palestinians are out of Gaza, then they can built a "beautiful" port on the Mediterranean, he means it, and has always meant it.

Mossfern

(3,862 posts)
46. I belive that back before the partition
Sat May 24, 2025, 06:13 PM
Yesterday

"Palestine" was occupied by Jews.
My grandfather, when he emigrated to the United States came through Palestine.
That was at the turn of the century. (1800's-1900's)

AloeVera

(2,801 posts)
57. Yes, they lived fairly peacefully with the Arab population
Sat May 24, 2025, 09:00 PM
Yesterday

Lived there for centuries. They were a small minority though - maybe 5%. But the Zionist Movement beginning in the late 19th century changed all that.

PufPuf23

(9,408 posts)
54. 14,000 not 44,000 in two days and not true in either case.
Sat May 24, 2025, 08:31 PM
Yesterday

The UN spokesman who misspoke or suffered histrionics or lied or whatever was wrong by timeline but not the fact that 14,000 or more children have been or will be killed by the IDF in Gaza by an extreme and poor choice in strategy to address the evil of October 6.

The intent of Netanyahu and supporters to depopulate Gaza has long been transparent. One can love Israel and still believe the assault on the people of Gaza is evil.

Evil is evil on an event by event basis.

artemisia1

(1,050 posts)
12. Nobody can call it anything other than Ethnic Cleansing. Israeli apologists on this forum, notwithstanding. And, no, two
Sat May 24, 2025, 02:37 PM
Yesterday

wrongs don't make a right. One can oppose both Hamas and the present Israeli government.

Orrex

(65,211 posts)
14. Impossible!
Sat May 24, 2025, 03:02 PM
Yesterday

When I’ve suggested previously that this was Netanyahu’s plan, I was called a pro-Hamas antisemite who wants Israel driven into the sea!

Butterflylady

(4,407 posts)
20. I agree,
Sat May 24, 2025, 03:19 PM
Yesterday

This was netanyaho's plan all along. He's going to bring that country to it's knees and now he wants to bomb Iran. That will not end well.

AloeVera

(2,801 posts)
60. I know, right? Oh the good 'ole days of shaming and ridicule...
Sat May 24, 2025, 09:18 PM
23 hrs ago

Where are those people now? They must be as horrified as we are - even more so since this must be a shock to them, right?

LisaM

(29,203 posts)
15. Yet Biden and Harris were the problem.
Sat May 24, 2025, 03:05 PM
Yesterday

Last edited Sat May 24, 2025, 04:05 PM - Edit history (1)

I suppose we'll learn in time that any restraint on Netanyahu's fecklessness came from the Biden administration. But, way too late.

I support a two-state solution, as do, I hope, most people here. Uninstalling Netanyahu has to be part of that. He is like Trump in that a majority of Israelis don't support his policy, yet he's entrenched himself in power. He needs to go.

W_HAMILTON

(9,013 posts)
31. There is a no state solution now for Gaza, and those that helped enabled a Trump victory ensured that.
Sat May 24, 2025, 03:49 PM
Yesterday

Gaza is gone and Palestinians will be forever refugees or -- depending on Netanyahu's completely unrestrained desires -- outright exterminated.

Many of us warned everyone of this.

Bettie

(18,305 posts)
36. And once he's done with the people in Gaza
Sat May 24, 2025, 04:02 PM
Yesterday

he'll have to find some other place to wage war to keep from being prosecuted.

My guess is that he'll work on eliminating those he doesn't see as people in the West Bank...but, he could want a chunk of Lebanon or Egypt, who knows?

LisaM

(29,203 posts)
37. Yes, and Kshama Sawant, erstwhile Seattle City Council member, is part of that.
Sat May 24, 2025, 04:04 PM
Yesterday

She knew she couldn't flip Washington (where I live) so she went to Michigan (where I am from) and poisoned the well for Harris.

Sawant seems to have conveniently vanished for now, but I suppose she will crawl out from under a rock at some point to cause more harm.

enid602

(9,363 posts)
76. Saudis
Sun May 25, 2025, 03:57 AM
17 hrs ago

Yet the Saudís have stated that the Palestinians will not be moved. Very influencial, the Saudís.

W_HAMILTON

(9,013 posts)
29. We warned people of this.
Sat May 24, 2025, 03:46 PM
Yesterday

We warned them that Netanyahu was hoping for/helping with a Trump win so that he could do exactly this (https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel-trump-1.7375519).

And *just enough* idiots that thought they were somehow helping the Gaza situation by not supporting and voting for Kamala.

To me, they are almost as complicit as Trump and Netanyahu -- wait, no, fuck that. They are every bit as complicit. Gaza no longer existing and Palestinians being forever refugees is as much on them as it is Trump and Netanyahu because this would not be the road we would be going down in Biden or Kamala were in office right now.

Chasstev365

(5,475 posts)
33. Translation:
Sat May 24, 2025, 03:57 PM
Yesterday

I will kill as many innocents as I need to stay out of jail:

COME ON ISRAELIS: YOU'RE BETTER THAN THIS!

Bettie

(18,305 posts)
35. So, NOW can we call it
Sat May 24, 2025, 04:00 PM
Yesterday

ethnic cleansing?

Because it really looks like that is what it is, regardless of the religion/nationality of the people doing it.

red dog 1

(31,027 posts)
40. Israeli settlers attacked a village near Bethlehem just hours ago, killing livestock belonging to Palestinians
Sat May 24, 2025, 04:38 PM
Yesterday

Their terrorism spares no one - not even animals



Ignore "Not found" and click on "Link to tweet" to watch video (graphic content)

Bettie

(18,305 posts)
41. Well, guess the West Bank
Sat May 24, 2025, 05:13 PM
Yesterday

will be the next "cleansing" to ensure that Netanyahu's right wing settler buddies have more living space.

AloeVera

(2,801 posts)
64. It's been happening since Oct 7th.
Sat May 24, 2025, 09:30 PM
23 hrs ago

I read 30 or 40 THOUSAND Palestinians have been displaced or had their home taken. Over 500 killed. More by now probably, I lost track.

We just haven't paid as much attention. But the West Bank is next.

No remorse, no shame. Poor Palestinians.

Bettie

(18,305 posts)
69. It's been happening there for years
Sat May 24, 2025, 10:44 PM
22 hrs ago

now, once they've "cleansed" Gaza, they'll move on full-scale to the West Bank. Round up whole villages and make sure they don't come back.

That's the only way Netanyahu stays in power and away from his legal issues, so he'll play to the right wing hard liners.

Takket

(22,977 posts)
42. This is a decision that was made about 10 minutes after the terror attack (if not before), by the way
Sat May 24, 2025, 05:18 PM
Yesterday

They just finally feel comfortable enough saying it publicly.

Nanjeanne

(6,131 posts)
44. This comes as no surprise. For reference, and if anyone is interested in doing really deep diving
Sat May 24, 2025, 05:42 PM
Yesterday

into what is/has been going on for the Palestinian people but are interested in it from an Israeli humanitarian viewpoint - I recommend using B’Tselem as a resource. It is The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories and mission strives for a future in which human rights, liberty and equality are guaranteed to all people, Palestinian and Jewish alike, living between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea https://www.btselem.org]

You could spend months reading all the articles, statistics, etc. their list of topics is vast and within each topic are many many articles. https://www.btselem.org/list_of_topics]

I am dropping the link - not to have a debate on the organization itself although I am sure there are some who will want to do that. Their list of awards speaks for itself including the New Israel Fund 2023 Truth to Power award to B'Tselem field researcher Nasser Nawaj’ah for his work defending human rights in the Occupied Territories. But because there is so much to learn about what has been happening and knowing only helps us to understand and possibly, as B’Tselem says “ realize a future in which human rights, liberty and equality are guaranteed to all human beings living here, Palestinians and Jews alike.”

AloeVera

(2,801 posts)
65. I hope people do go to their site. Eye-opening.
Sat May 24, 2025, 09:33 PM
23 hrs ago

It's a wonderful, couragous organization. I love them!

lapucelle

(20,203 posts)
78. I went to the website, ProPublica, and then to (oh dear) SourceWatch.
Sun May 25, 2025, 07:10 AM
13 hrs ago

Last edited Sun May 25, 2025, 05:36 PM - Edit history (1)

-edited to remove Influence Watch reference.

Propublica names Simone Zimmermann as the Executive Director.

https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/262823635/202220539349301112/full

-------------------------------------------------

Ms Zimmermann's name is nowhere on the masthead or in the "About Us" page on the B'Tselem website.

https://www.btselem.org/about_btselem/board_members

---------------------------------------------

SourceWatch is absolutely fascinating! The most recent information they have about B'Tslem is from 18 years ago. No wonder all the information about about the board and executive director is wrong!


https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/B'Tselem

And then there's the SourceWatch disclaimer:







Violet_Crumble

(36,273 posts)
80. Influence Watch is run by a conservative think tank.
Sun May 25, 2025, 08:30 AM
12 hrs ago


Founded in 2016, Influence Watch is a project of the conservative think tank Capital Research Center. According to their about page, “Capital Research Center conceived of this project after identifying a need for more fact-based, accurate descriptions of all of the various influencers of public policy issues.” In simpler terms, Influence Watch attempts to be the right-leaning counter to the left-leaning Sourcewatch, which profiles how and where think tanks, organizations, and media are funded.

*snip*

In general, Influence Watch uses strongly loaded words to describe the organizations they are profiling, often labeling them extremists.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/influence-watch/


Here's information on B'tselem that's not from a RW source. Also, unless I'm remembering incorrectly, the Israeli government led by Netanyahu attempted to shut down B'tselem and other Israeli human rights groups.



B'TSELEM - The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories "was established in 1989 by a group of prominent academics, attorneys, journalists, and Knesset members. It endeavors to document and educate the Israeli public and policymakers about human rights violations in the Occupied Territories, combat the phenomenon of denial prevalent among the Israeli public, and help create a human rights culture in Israel." [

https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/B'Tselem


Response to lapucelle (Reply #78)

AloeVera

(2,801 posts)
83. Sums it up nicely and accurately. Thanks, I'm saving this.
Sun May 25, 2025, 08:52 AM
12 hrs ago
In a September 2024 article, B’Tselem claimed “the Israeli government does not want to return the hostages [taken by Hamas in the October 7, 2023 attacks] in a deal, but to continue the war indefinitely.”


Well... turns out they were right about that too.



lapucelle

(20,203 posts)
109. If by "sums it up nicely" you mean more agenda-driven than fact-based, then yes.
Sun May 25, 2025, 05:08 PM
4 hrs ago

Do you have any reliable links for your assertions, or just stuff like this?

The internet abounds with bias confirmation.





Nanjeanne

(6,131 posts)
84. That's nice. Did you read many of the articles? Did you read about the orgs that have given them awards?
Sun May 25, 2025, 08:57 AM
12 hrs ago

Did you go to Global ministries and read? Did you read about them in the University Center for international Studies? The Jewish Virtual Library? The New Yorker even? Wikipedia? Did you read enough to make a judgement? Or just look for some place to put your own bias to work? That’s fine. Not a surprise. So discount everything because Influence Watch gave you the opportunity to do so. No problem.

Oh FYI per Media Bias Fact

Influence Watch

RIGHT BIAS

These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward conservative causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may utilize strong loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes), publish misleading reports, and omit information that may damage conservative causes. Some sources in this category may be untrustworthy. See all Right Bias sources.

Overall, we rate Influence Watch Right Biased based on the left-leaning sources they more frequently profile, as well as the use of loaded words such as “extremist” to describe liberal policy. We also rate them High for factual reporting due to proper sourcing and a clean fact check record.


Another reason to recommend B’Tselem. When a Human Rihts Organization is disliked by a right wing media watch organization it’s a win!

You don’t need to let me know what you do and don’t read to enhance your vast knowledge. It’s always been very apparent to me.

Thanks for sharing. My pheromones must have been really strong. You managed to find my post in a thread full of posters comments but it’s me you sussed out. Not sure if I should be flattered or frightened by your attention.

lapucelle

(20,203 posts)
108. No. I researched the funding, board, and executive director.
Sun May 25, 2025, 05:02 PM
4 hrs ago

Last edited Sun May 25, 2025, 06:49 PM - Edit history (1)

ed. - removed InfluenceWatch reference

According to ProPublica, tax forms filed in 2022 list Simone Zimmerman is listed as executive director. Her name is nowhere to be found on the B'Tslem website. I wonder why?

https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/262823635/202220539349301112/full


lapucelle

(20,203 posts)
114. Well, given her history, keeping her name on the downlow seems smart.
Sun May 25, 2025, 07:35 PM
1 hr ago

How long did she last as Senator Sanders's Jewish Outreach Advisor before he fired her? Two days?



Nanjeanne

(6,131 posts)
115. Less time than Max Berger, co-founder of IfNotNow who served as aide to Warren's presidential campaign
Sun May 25, 2025, 07:42 PM
1 hr ago

It was a shame the pressure was on to fire her for her FB post. Frankly it was on target

Fuck you Bibi,” using Netanyahu’s nickname, and described the Israeli leader as “arrogant, deceptive, cynical” and “manipulative.” She criticized Netanyahu for trying to “derail” the Iranian nuclear negotiations and for leading the charge into Gaza, where roughly 1,500 Palestinian civilians were killed during the 2014 invasion.

Sounds about right to me!

Andy Canuck

(310 posts)
47. Yitzak Rabin, Yasser Arafat and the Oslo Accords
Sat May 24, 2025, 06:32 PM
Yesterday

Yitzak Rabin, Yasser Arafat and the Oslo Accords were so close to peace and a two-state solution until an extremist right-wing Israeli, in the Netanyahu mold, killed Rabin. The Israeli far-right has never believed in a two-state solution and they killed their own Prime Minister to stop it from happening. After Rabin was murdered it was the end of the dream of a Palestinian state and just a matter of time before the far-right in Israel moved in and took the land and removed the people. It wasn’t Hamas or a Palestinian that killed Rabin and the dream of peace in the Middle East.

Peacetrain

(23,948 posts)
49. Damn it all to hell.. where are these people supposed to go??
Sat May 24, 2025, 07:34 PM
Yesterday

No one will take them in.. they are stuck in their own country (little piece of land that it is) in the most crowded spot on earth.. dying from lack of food and clean water.. babies dying.. this has to stop

Orrex

(65,211 posts)
86. It's the conclusion that follows logically from what you wrote
Sun May 25, 2025, 09:18 AM
11 hrs ago

Additionally, Hamas--a vile terrorist regime that should be wiped out to its last member--has never had anything like the means to drive Israel into the sea. Netanyahu, in stark and US-funded contrast, has the means and apparent desire to murder millions of Palestinians. To that end, he's murdered far more Palestinians than Hamas has murdered Israels.

Some simpering, unthinking asshats might dismiss that as "a numbers game," but it's hard to ignore the disparity in body counts.


I'd be grateful if someone could explain the moral superiority of Netanyahu's goal.

Orrex

(65,211 posts)
89. Ah yes. Deuteronomy.
Sun May 25, 2025, 09:41 AM
11 hrs ago

One would hope that we'd advanced beyond bronze age bloodthirsty justifications, but I guess here we are.

magicarpet

(18,275 posts)
55. Yeeee,.... Haaaaaa !
Sat May 24, 2025, 08:40 PM
Yesterday

Condo towers, casinos, and golf courses. You can't make money if you don't unleash the builders and developers.

Build .... build,.... build.

Ping Tung

(2,433 posts)
59. There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people. Howard Zinn
Sat May 24, 2025, 09:13 PM
23 hrs ago

Jit423

(1,359 posts)
62. Don't know about you, but this sounds like genocide to me. Ethnic cleansing at a minimum.
Sat May 24, 2025, 09:25 PM
23 hrs ago

Israeli government is evil. I haven't read anywhere that Israel has treated any German entity since WWII as cruelly as it has the Palestinians and other Arabs. It should be a crime to not speak out against what Israel is doing in Gaza.

Bad Thoughts

(2,650 posts)
72. Follow the links: he doesn't say that
Sat May 24, 2025, 11:58 PM
21 hrs ago

He says Israel must establish control and hostages must be returned.

Hint: any resolution that allows aid to flow in will require military control. No other state has stepped up to play that role.

David__77

(24,137 posts)
73. He said the depopulation plan must be implemented. He's a racist and ethnic cleansing is officially a war aim.
Sun May 25, 2025, 12:25 AM
20 hrs ago

Bad Thoughts

(2,650 posts)
74. Quote Netanyahu, please!
Sun May 25, 2025, 12:48 AM
20 hrs ago

None of the links in the article show Netanyahu saying he would remove Palestinians from Gaza. He only references pushing civilian into the southern areas, allowing the IDF to operate in the north.

David__77

(24,137 posts)
93. Here you go
Sun May 25, 2025, 10:11 AM
10 hrs ago

Trump plan is permanent ethnic cleansing:

Trump says Palestinians would not have a right to return to Gaza under his redevelopment plan
https://www.wkow.com/news/international/trump-says-palestinians-would-not-have-a-right-to-return-to-gaza-under-his-redevelopment/article_2d75099a-4a88-5739-88fc-342812111620.html

“No, they wouldn’t,” Trump said in an interview on Fox News when asked whether the Palestinians would have a right to return

Netenyahu fully endorses said Trump plan:

Netanyahu sets implementation of Trump’s Gaza relocation plan as new condition for ending war
https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-implementation-of-trumps-gaza-relocation-plan-is-condition-for-ending-war/amp/

While “ready to end the war,” Netanyahu said he would only agree to do so “under clear conditions that will ensure the safety of Israel: All the hostages come home, Hamas lays down its arms, steps down from power, its leadership is exiled from the Strip… Gaza is totally disarmed; and we carry out the Trump plan. A plan that is so correct and so revolutionary.”



The racist baby killer thinks he’s being clever here- he’s calling for ethnic cleansing.

Bad Thoughts

(2,650 posts)
100. Fail! No quote that directly addresses the issue
Sun May 25, 2025, 11:18 AM
9 hrs ago

Nowhere in that passage does Netahyahu say Palestinians will be removed from Gaza entire, only removal from areas where military operations are taking place--THE HUMANITARIAN REQUIREMENT.

Trump's awful plan no longer contains proposal for forced removal of Palestinians. A casual reference by Netanyahu does not make a former proposal his policy.

Autumn

(47,891 posts)
95. In this press confrence he said "Trump's "revolutionary" plan to relocate Gaza's civilians
Sun May 25, 2025, 10:24 AM
10 hrs ago

is a condition for ending the conflict. " In other word Netanyahoo has no intention of ending the conflict.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-implementation-of-trumps-gaza-relocation-plan-is-condition-for-ending-war/
Netanyahu sets implementation of Trump’s Gaza relocation plan as new condition for ending war
At rare press conference, PM insists Qatari funds sent to Hamas at Israel’s request did not enable Oct. 7, seems to downplay terror group’s capabilities: ‘Attacked in flip-flops’; falsely claims Kibbutz Ein HaShlosha was not invaded



This is Trump brilliant plan from AJC
This initiative proposes relocating Palestinian residents to neighboring countries like Egypt and Jordan, with the stated goal of providing them with safer and more stable living conditions. Trump envisions the U.S. leading Gaza’s reconstruction by clearing unexploded ordnance, removing debris, and developing infrastructure to create jobs and housing. He argues that this approach would prevent the region from reverting to conflict and instability.

However, Egypt and Jordan have firmly rejected the proposal, citing concerns over regional destabilization and the forced displacement of Palestinians from their homeland. Their opposition underscores broader skepticism about the plan’s feasibility and long-term consequences.

https://www.ajc.org/news/what-is-trumps-proposal-for-gaza

Bad Thoughts

(2,650 posts)
99. Trump walked back the resettlement requirement
Sun May 25, 2025, 11:12 AM
9 hrs ago

Find where Netanyahu directly said Palestinians will be cleared of Gaza.

Autumn

(47,891 posts)
104. Show me where he didn't say it. As of May 22 he said Trump is still commited to it.
Sun May 25, 2025, 11:56 AM
9 hrs ago

As for Trump walking back the resettlement requirement. Trump lies

Trump’s ‘absolute commitment’
Asked about reports of a growing rift between him and Trump, Netanyahu asserted that Israel’s relations with the United States are positive, and that the US president’s warming relations with Arab states in the Middle East do not worry him.

Netanyahu said he was assured by Trump and US Vice President JD Vance in recent days that America has Israel’s back.

Autumn

(47,891 posts)
106. May 22 Netanyahoo said Trump was still committed to the plan
Sun May 25, 2025, 01:25 PM
7 hrs ago

Netanyahu said he was assured by Trump and US Vice President JD Vance in recent days that America has his back. May 22 does come after March 12. So no, I don't need to hear what the orange sack of pus has to say, beacuse he lies.

LearnedHand

(4,694 posts)
91. Oh, so it ISN't about the Hamas attack after all
Sun May 25, 2025, 10:05 AM
11 hrs ago

Who could possibly have foreseen that?



Monsters.

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